Veteran Spotlight – Daniel Areshenko
Dan is an incredible combat leader and a meticulous planner that I have had the honor to know since our days together at West Point. Because of his attention to detail, planning ability, and extraordinary intellect, Dan tends to achieve his goals and then some. He is a great example of how you should think about and plan your post-military life. This interview with Dan contains a WEALTH of information, primarily geared toward junior military officers who are considering applying to law school, business school, or both. Right now, Dan is completing his JD/MBA at Vanderbilt.
Tell me about your time in the Army
I selected infantry as my branch and began my initial training at Fort Benning, Georgia, in the summer of 2004. I attended the Infantry Officer Basic Course, Ranger School, and Airborne School.
In May 2005 I reported to the 2nd Infantry Division at Fort Lewis, Washington, and was assigned to 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, which was a Stryker Brigade. My first position was as a rifle platoon leader in 2-3 Infantry for about a year in Washington, including rotations to the National Training Center and Yakima Training Center and for part of a 15-month deployment to Iraq beginning in July 2006. I was a rifle platoon leader in Mosul, Iraq, and I became an executive officer shortly before we moved to Baghdad. After several months in Baghdad the unit moved to Baqubah and I spent the rest of the deployment there before heading home. After returning to Fort Lewis, Washington in September 2007, I continued as an executive officer for a few more months.
In January 2008 I moved back to Fort Benning, Georgia, where I took command of a company in the 29th Infantry Regiment that was responsible for Bradley and Stryker training. I commanded for the next eighteen months and went on terminal leave in July 2009.
Why did you decide to leave the Army
I had many reasons for staying in the Army and many for going, but what it really came down to is that I long had an interest in practicing law. While on active duty I took a hard look at JAG and was very close to applying, but ultimately I concluded that I wasn’t sure I wanted to be a litigation attorney. JAG has a fairly strong focus on litigation and is certainly one of the best places to be a litigator, but I wasn’t sure that it was right for me. I also had an interest in possibly pursuing a business career. So, those were the primary reasons I decided to pursue graduate school as a civilian.
What was your transition timeline like? How far before you left the service did you take the necessary tests and decide on schools
I took the GMAT in the fall of 2008 and the LSAT in December 2008, while I was still in the Army. I was a bit more interested in law school than business school, so I applied to only a few business schools but I applied to several more law schools. For the most part, joint degree programs still require individuals to apply independently and be accepted independently to each school. Business schools have a more demanding application process. B-schools require applicants to write highly specific application essays and personal statement questions. Also, individuals who write your letters of recommendation have to respond to unique questions for each business school, often on the business school’s unique forms. In contrast, the law school application process is more general (LSDAS has a “common application”) and it’s more accepting of using the same letters of recommendation to apply to many different law schools. Likewise, the personal statement question is usually the same for most law schools, but you would be wise to modify or tailor it a little bit for each school – especially if you have a geographic or some other tie to the school that may not otherwise be obvious.
Joint degree programs usually offer the flexibility of beginning in either school, and JD/MBA programs are no different (you can do your first year in the law school and second year in the business school, as I did, or vice versa). Because I was a bit more focused on law and because I knew I could cover more schools, I decided to apply to law school first and then wherever I matriculated I would apply to the business school during my first year of law school. That, of course, creates the risk you’ll end up at a law school where you don’t get accepted to the business school, but you can make a fairly good assessment of your admissions chances by looking at your GPA and test scores along with speaking to admissions representatives. Though, if you have only a particular school in mind for whatever reasons, you would be well-advised to apply to both schools at the same time. But it is much more exhausting to apply to lots of business schools than it is to apply to lots of law schools. Other types of graduate schools undoubtedly have their own requirements, but I don’t have experience with anything other than law or business programs. The following should not be a huge factor – especially considering how much you’ll spend on your education at any school – but applying to b-school was usually north of $200 per application, whereas law schools were around $75 per application.
What were the top 3 criteria for deciding on a school?
1) Academic rigor was probably the most important to me. I wanted to be challenged intellectually and to get the most bang for my buck.
2) Reputation was important because I was interested in going to work in a large market (LA, NYC, Houston, DC, SF, etc.), and in those markets it’s a bit more important to come from a highly ranked school than in some other locations.
3) Cost was a factor, but certainly not the biggest. I wanted to invest in my education so I did not weight that factor too heavily. I was confident I would be able to pay off the loans, so it wasn’t a huge factor, though it was a factor. But this is an area where people should be very cautious and can get in a lot of trouble. More on this further below.
Location is probably important for a lot of people, particularly if married or with children, but I was not in either of those cases. I’ve lived all over the US and the world so I wasn’t very concerned about location.
What resources did you use to make the transition easier?
I didn’t really take advantage of too many Army resources during my transition, other than final household goods moving benefits. I didn’t even have time to get my final dental done before leaving Fort Benning.
What were the top 3 criteria in deciding on a new career?
1) Enjoyment was definitely top. I wanted to do something that I was very passionate about, especially when you consider that most of us will work well into our 60’s and even 70’s. That’s a long time, so I would be very certain about what you’re getting into. On the other hand, there’s still time to change if you decide on something different, but most years you spend in other professions will not equate to the same level of experience if you change professions yet again.
2) Mobility & flexibility. I wanted a career that existed all over the US. I wasn’t sure precisely where I wanted to end up, so I didn’t want to close any doors. A law degree (JD) and a MBA are both flexible degrees that can help in many different professions, so I felt comfortable that either of those programs offered me a lot of flexibility and mobility.
3) I’d be lying if I said money wasn’t a factor. I don’t feel an immense need to be wealthy, but I do want to be secure and not be concerned about my ability to pay bills and eventually retire. The vast majority of Americans nearing retirement have not saved enough to maintain their current lifestyles and will have to continue working as a result, so it’s never too early to think about the financials and saving for retirement.
Finding a degree program and career you think you’ll enjoy is of course very important, but keep in mind that you live in a real world where bills have to be paid. What you’d like to study in school and what you’d like to do for a living needs to be grounded in reality. There are some degree programs and professions that simply have horrible earning prospects, yet they still cost as much as the programs with much more promising career prospects. Don’t assume that you must go back to school. If you know what profession you want to pursue, it may make more sense to go straight to work and/or pursue a part-time degree program. But school is a good place to figure out what you want to do. Just be sure that you’re pursuing a degree that is both flexible and will also give you credentials that are in demand when you’re done.
Verify any information you’re given. There are a lot of loopholes by which schools can (and many do) cook their employment and salary statistics to make a program look far more promising than it really is. Do your homework and verify what you’re told. Be skeptical. There are a lot of schools out there that are more focused on profit-making than educating.
Did you have a backup to school in case you were not able to win admission?
Yes, you should absolutely apply to several “safety schools,” where your GPA and test scores are more than acceptable or well above average. But your backup plan may be full-time work rather than school, which is perfectly fine. The admissions process is very hit or miss, so you always want to have at least one backup plan.
Are there any key mistakes veterans should avoid?
All schools determine a budget of living expenses for single students and married students, which is how (federally-backed) financial aid amounts are determined. Usually this budgeted amount is more than you really need. Don’t pig out or you might find yourself overwhelmed. Student loans are forever. Credit card debt, home loans, and most other debt can be discharged in bankruptcy; student loans, however, are not dischargeable in any way other than simply paying them off. Moreover, student loans (particularly for graduate students) carry very high interest rates (Graduate PLUS loans, for example, are 7.9% per year), so they should only be used where needed. Undergraduate student loan rates are often lower. There are loan forgiveness programs for students who join public service careers, but be very thorough in your homework and be sure you’re ready for that commitment.
Getting into school and dealing with financial aid and scholarships, like your education benefits, is a very paperwork intensive process. Keep your records and meet your deadlines.
If you could have known one thing before the transition what would it be?
In the military you’re usually given your next job. In the civilian world, you have to have a good, accurate, error-free resume, apply for jobs broadly, network for interviews in many cases, prepare for interviews extensively, and hit interviews out of the park. The economy is also a factor, but know that you are joining the world of at-will employment. With some exceptions, it is largely merit-based and can be quite competitive depending on the market and industry you’re pursuing.
How did you go about finding housing?
Most graduate school programs will organize a facebook page or something like that for housing, so I found my roommate through that avenue. I didn’t find that to be a challenge, as there are so many resources out there nowadays. But the school is a good first source, since at least those potential roommates have been screened in some way versus the open world of craigslist. And if you’re not looking for a roommate, the school should most certainly be able to offer some advice about apartments and neighborhoods. They might not want to endorse a particular complex, but if you ask in person or on the phone, someone will help. Many schools post this info on their websites as well and it’s often part of the admissions welcome packet following acceptance.
Who inspires you in the civilian world?
I attended the annual Armed Services/Veterans MBA Conference in Chicago in the fall of 2010 (a great job resource), and the keynote speaker was Army veteran and current Proctor & Gamble CEO Bob McDonald. He is probably the most incredible and inspirational speaker I’ve ever heard and I think he would be a phenomenal leader to work for. I don’t say that about many people, but the way he spoke about leadership struck me as 100% genuine and 100% on point. P&G isn’t in the type of industry I’m interested in pursuing, but if it was, P&G is where I would want to go. Another takeaway from Bob McDonald is that, while it’s helpful to attend a high-ranked business school, it’s not necessary for success. McDonald earned his MBA at the University of Utah, which is a great school, but he rose to the top without attending a “top ten” business school or whatever you’d like to call it. But again, getting your foot in the door and getting an interview is often much easier with a big name school, so I would still urge everyone to aim as high as they can.
What business or organization inspires you in the civilian world?
Walmart is probably the most inspirational business to me. It is a behemoth in good times and bad. It has revolutionized supply chain management, customer service, cost management, and has led the way in so many different ways. It handles good markets and bad markets well, which few businesses can do.
I’m also inspired by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates has dedicated the rest of his career to it and he’s obviously a great innovator and problem solver. He has faced many challenges and learned a great deal throughout the process, but even still, a lot of organizations just seem to throw money at problems and I think the Gates Foundation is one of many that keeps a very close eye on whether it’s accomplishing its goals. It has also won the admiration and support of Warren Buffet, a favorite investor of my own and many others. The Gates Foundation has generated enormous support and it’s on a mission to fix a lot of problems, which, I think, is a superb example of selfless service.
What do you miss most about the military?
The people. Out in the graduate school and business community you don’t encounter as many people who have the same sense of loyalty or camaraderie. Every large organization has every type of person, of course, but I think I’ve made more close life friends in the military than elsewhere. But I have spent more time in the military than in any other organization, so my characterization may be a bit unfair.
How did you manage finances?
Financial aid is endless. As a veteran, you will probably have access to education benefits. The most important thing to know is that for service academy graduates and ROTC scholarship graduates, the service that you were obligated to perform does not count towards your education benefits eligibility. But, if you stay I think four months beyond your obligation, you will be eligible for 40% of those benefits.
To get the full 100% benefit (and be eligible for the Yellow Ribbon Program), you have to perform three years of eligible service. The benefits are very generous by themselves, but Yellow Ribbon is incredibly generous. As far as Yellow Ribbon, the school’s match does differ by school, so that could make a huge difference from one school to the next. Check out the school’s website or call the financial aid staff.
Also know that even the basic education benefits for veterans differ based on state. It is limited to the highest in-state undergraduate public university tuition (even if you’re studying as a grad student at a private university) in that state. It has a provision for fees and books as well. But again, check with the VA or other resources to get the most up to date information, as it has changed some since I started grad school two years ago.
What advice do you have for transitioning veterans?
99% of Americans regardless of political persuasion appreciate everything you’ve done, but remember that you did a job that you were paid quite well to do. Don’t wear your service on your shoulder. There are a lot of other professions out there that are dangerous and hazardous and require sacrifice; the military is only one, so don’t expect or demand special treatment. Be mindful of perceptions—many of them false—and be an example that disproves those stereotypes. Americans read lots of stories about heroism and selfless service, but they also read in the newspaper every day about veterans who because of PTSD, alcoholism, or some other reason commit crimes or harm other individuals. Don’t feed that perception by acting overly aggressively, short-fused, or by trying to be confrontational, loud, or obnoxious. All you need to do is be a professional. Exercise leadership, for sure, but don’t shove it down anyone’s throat.
The civilian world is a lot more laid back than the military, so don’t be surprised when people show up late to class or are very casual, or when they don’t know much or anything about the military. The military was the only thing I knew as an adult before going back to school, so just understand that you’re rejoining a different environment. It’s a personal decision, but you don’t need to wear your OEF/OIF t-shirt on the first day of class. People will eventually learn where you’ve been and what you’ve done and they may or may not ask you questions about it. Deal with that as it comes, but always be mindful of perceptions and act as a professional.
If you’re applying to graduate school, you might need letters of recommendation. Don’t forget your professors and hopefully you developed a relationship with at least one. Business schools want to hear more from your Army supervisors, whereas law schools are a bit more open to professors, supervisors, etc. Every school is different, so follow their instructions, but notwithstanding their instructions, at least in law school veterans are quite rare and can get away with more supervisor recommendations rather than professor recommendations. But regardless of who you get your letters from, make it easy on them. When you write them a nice, detailed letter about what you need them to do, give them a list of bullet points summarizing your accomplishments with that organization or in that class. If you still have a paper that you scored well on, send a copy of it along with the letter. Like many things in life, if you put junk in, you’ll get junk out. Don’t make it hard on your recommenders to remember what you accomplished. Do that for them. They have lots of students or subordinates. You remember your accomplishments better than anyone, so if you help them out, they’ll help you out with a good, meaningful recommendation letter as opposed to a very short letter that is devoid of any useful insight into your skills, intelligence, and ability.
When considering a lengthy program (JD/MBA, PhD, BA/BS, etc.), think about your summer employment opportunities. Summer employment doesn’t usually generate a lot of income unless you’re in a very in-demand program and you’re in your final summer. I have three summers in my four-year JD/MBA program and the last summer it’s been much easier, but in previous summers I had to work much harder to get a job. Different degree programs have different norms, but if the summer job opportunities are mostly unpaid, be prepared for that. And understand as well that your education benefits are good only during the academic semester, while enrolled. Going part-time reduces or eliminates a lot of benefits, including basic allowance for housing (BAH), so be mindful of the credit requirement to be considered full-time (probably twelve semester credits, but be sure to verify that with your school’s representative for veteran benefits). You can certainly attend summer school and get education benefits and BAH during that summer, but the same requirements regarding full-time and part-time will apply. Many schools allow you to earn credit (and hence, receive benefits) while working an unpaid summer job for governmental or non-profit organizations.
If you’re looking at a BA/BS, attending summer school is a wise choice to get done sooner. Really for any program that’s often a wise choice, unless it’s a MBA, JD, or similar program where a lot of hiring for full-time comes through your final summer employment (the potential employer essentially gets an eight or ten-week interview and decides at the end of the summer whether to extend a permanent employment offer to return after graduation).
Feel free to contact me (Daniel.W.Areshenko@Vanderbilt.edu or Areshenko@gmail.com) if you have any questions. A lot of this information is very general and may not, of course, apply to your unique situation. Nonetheless, odds are we know something that can help you or can find someone who can help you, so please don’t hesitate to drop us a line to chat about your goals and plan.
